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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 29, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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and we are praying for everybody who has suffered a loss at the capital gazette. what a week. another week of "morning joe" and another week of trying to figure out what's going on in washington and in this country. >> well, thank you so much for watching this week. and we hope that you and your family have a good safe weekend. we'll see you on monday. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, joe, thanks, mika. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover, starting with those five people killed. two injured. when a gunman burst into the offices of one of the oldest newspapers in the country and he opened fire. >> that was a targeted attack on the capital gazette. his intent was to cause harm. >> the president and others in our nation's capital offering their thoughts and prayers to the victims.
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>> our whole lives have been shattered. and so thanks for your prayers, but i couldn't give a [ bleep ] about them if there's nothing else. >> face-off on the hill. house republicans go on the attack at a contentious hearing of the judiciary committee. accusing the fbi director and deputy attorney general of hiding documents and intimidating their staffers. >> did you threaten to subpoena their calls and e-mails? >> no, there's no way to subpoena phone calls. >> i'm just saying. i'm reading what the press said. >> i would suggest that you not rely on what the press says, sir. >> ooh. and art of the deal. the president visits the site of a new fox conn plant site in wisconsin. but with more than $4 billion in tax breaks, did president trump make a bad deal? >> you could make the deal ten times better and they're going to say, oh, gee, you're going to do better. the fact is, the deal he made is
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incredible. >> we begin the story of course with the deadly shooting at maryland's capital gazette newspaper, claiming the lives of five employees and injuring two others. investigators are searching for a motive and looking into the gunman's past connection to the paper. i want to get you caught up on the latest details on this very upsetting and developing story. three senior law enforcement officials briefed on the matter tell nbc news the suspect has been identified as 38-year-old jarrod raymos. he is now charged with five counts of first degree murder. a bail hearing is scheduled in about an hour and a half at the annapolis district courthouse. police were first notified about an active shooter around it 2:40 p.m. yesterday. survivors saying they hid under their desks as the gunman opened fire on multiple employees. >> i quickly recognized this is
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a malicious situation, he's here to do harm to us, and we immediately ran and got under one of the desks in the far back corner of the office and we just huddled as close as we could to each other and tried to stay out of sight of whoever it was. >> authorities say the suspect surrendered as soon as he was confronted. >> they were on the scene in about 60 seconds, but beyond that, they went immediately into that building without a moment's hesitation and demonstrated incredible courage, and we are so deeply appreciative of their great work. it could have been a lot worse. >> this is video of police taking the alleged gunman away in handcuffs. we have learned of a previous connection between the suspected gunman and the paper. he sued the capital gazette six years ago for defamation and he lost. let's go live to msnbc's garrett haake. garrett what are we expecting in this bail hearing? it is going to be tough for so
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many people to see this man's face. >> it will be tough, but it will be short. this hearing will be done mostly by video conference. we don't expect jarrod ramos to appear in the courtroom. we expect they will discuss and then dismiss the possibility of bail for mr. ramos who will almost certainly remain behind bars until the next hearing. >> talk about the defamation suit ramos fired against the paper. >> sure, ramos' beef with the capital gazette goes back to 2011. that's when he pled guilty on a harassment case. the paper wrote a column about it. it's a fascinating story. ramos in this column is described as someone who reached out to someone he knew in high school on facebook. it developed into this relationship. the woman involved said was harassment. ramos pled guilty to it. a year later, ramos filed suit for defamation. the next year in 2013, that suit
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was dismissed. in 2015, an appeal was also dismissed. all throughout this time, ramos was active on social media, talking about the paper, talking about the columnist who had written this piece. his animus pretty clear. it's worth pointing out none of the five people killed yesterday had anything to do with that story. >> this is such an upsetting story. i want to bring my panel in. it's a pretty special one. brendan greely is the editor of the economic research note all we know so far. glen kirshner is a former federal prosecutor. and jim cavanaugh, retired atf special agent in charge. brendan, i have to go to you first. this was your hometown. you were a paper boy delivering the gazette years ago. talk to us about what this publication is to your community, especially at a time when local newspaper papers are more and more scarce. >> stef, it's a small town.
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you know, there just aren't that many people here. 30,000 people in annapolis. the paper, you know, this morning on social media, i saw three different people from annapolis, friends, who had been profiled by wendi winters. she was one of the journalists who was killed yesterday. and so we call it the crab wrapper here. we say that with affection. but there was nothing remotely political about this paper. its editorials were straight down the middle. it very much did the work of a local paper. i keep coming back to wendi winters. she was active in my wife's church. and she wrote the teen of the week feature. she wrote the home of the week feature. this is the work that a local paper does so we understand who we are. annapolis is lucky to have a local paper but i got to tell you, right now where we're standing is outside the city. about 15 years ago, the paper, because it couldn't afford to be in the city, they couldn't afford to have a building above its presses anymore, moved out
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here, outside the city limits. these challengings are happening to papers all over the country. this is the paper, you know, i subscribe to the capital. this is the paper that came to my home this morning. the opinion section is left blank. only the names of the people who were killed. but i have to read to you, tomorrow, this page will return to its steady purpose of offering informed opinion about the world, that they might be better citizens. and that's the work. that local papers do. >> brendan, i'm so sorry. i know how hard this story hits you and your family. glen, i want to talk about his defamation suit. ramos lost his definition suit against the paper, and authorities are calling this a targeted attack. what does that tell you about a possible motive here? >> well, stephanie, i think what i found most troubling, when i saw the time line that is emerging, it looks like the
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original incident with the woman he allegedly stalked, started almost a decade ago in 2009. he then filed suit for defamation once the paper printed the column, and then that suit was dismissed in 2012. he appealed that dismissal. and in 2015, an appellate judge, similarly, dismissed his appeal. now, i think the question we have to ask ourselves, not only as law enforcement and prosecutors, but just as the american public, why three years later does he then choose to take up a weapon, burst into the news organization and open fire. what is it that inspired him or encouraged him or emboldened him at this moment, three years after his appeal was denied, to take up arms and begin killing journalists? we can all speculate about the
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toxic atmosphere that we seem to be living in right now when there are calls for violence against journalists, but i'll tell you, that was the most troubling aspect of the time line, from 2015, three years later, he decides to open fire. >> 2015 was the last time this case got dismissed, and now here we are, three years later. that's a long time to wait if it's revenge. >> well, you know, when people say the fellow snapped, it's never the case. it's always a simmer and a slow boil. and as glen outlined, you know, ten years here, seven with the newspaper, of a slow pot boiling, this guy is doing all these things. you know, he's not cooperating with the detectives right now, but he's already previously put hundreds of postings on twitter about the gazette. some direct threats back in
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2013. talking about reporters dead. this guy talked about charlie hebdo on his twitter, you know, when he had a feud with the paper. this guy was hiding in plain sight. and i think -- hopefully the maryland authorities, when they get through the case, will go back and do a hot-wash after-action report, because if there was a possibility of making charges against this guy for these threats previously, maybe he would have been convicted of a felony threat and he couldn't have purchased the shotgun so easily -- >> isn't that amazing, someone with hundreds of twitter posts, previous threat, saying he wants to go after them, and that guy can walk in and take a gun. jim, what can you tell us? help me understand how he obscured his fingerprints, making his identification difficult, and they identified him by using facial recognition software. what do you make of that? >> you know, this guy thinks he's too clever by half, stephanie. he thought he could get by.
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he makes his threats veiled. he seems he's very clever. even when he talked to his original victim, "you can't do anything to me," that goes hand-in-hand with maybe him trying to destroy his fingerprints, and he might have thought he could have escaped this killing. he didn't come with, you know, bandeleros of ammunition and stuff. he had some smoke grenades and the shotgun. a pump shotgun might carry seven rounds. he had to reload. i think there's a possibility here this guy thought he could do this, escape. but he didn't plan on anne arundil county being so fast. he's not going to like jail. he's an obsessive guy. he's mad all the time. he's obstinate at everybody. this is a guy who has conflicts in his life and collects grudges. he collects them, he saves them and he boils them. this is a guy who can be seen by
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police and mental health professionals. we just have to look. and we have to do even minimal security on every business. because every business, every place of work, school, office, there's somebody related to somebody who knows somebody about that business, domestic issues. money issues. that could be a threat. we have to open our eyes and take some basic minimum security procedures. lock the door. cameras. buzzer access. don't let a guy you know for seven years just walk in and start slaughtering you. >> brendan, before we go, take me back to annapolis. a reporter for the gazette, chase cook, posted this tweet last night. i can tell you this, we are putting out a damn paper tomorrow. i mean, that tweet, it really embodies the spirit of these hard-working local journalists. i want you to talk to us about the impact on a personal level, especially when it happens this close to home. >> you know, stef, i came here last night and i covered this,
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like the hundreds of other journalists who were here, that's what we do. you've done this. you go to the place where things are happening and you do your best to try to explain to the world what you know. i went home after that. my kids were still up. and one of my daughters asked me whether i was still safe. i said no, look, i just work in an office and sometimes offices are dangerous. and a journalism press room is just exactly like any other office. and then i thought, well, is that any better? i don't know. there's been a lot of talk on social media about being annapolis strong. i think that's okay. i don't feel that. i feel like i want to be a citizen of america where this doesn't happen strong. i want to be that kind of strong. look, we're going through what you go through. people know people at the capital. we're all talking about it.
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and we're sad. but this will roll on. this story will move on. this will still be a thing that happens in america. i'm at a loss to understand how it is that it keeps happening to be honest. i don't know. i talked last night to the police chaplain at annapolis and she said she was amazed at how many active shooter drills companies in the building had been through. she said, i don't think we understand that no place is safe. >> annapolis is lucky to have a great journalist in you, a neighbor, a friend, a husband, a father, an all around great guy. i'm so sorry for what your community is going through. jim, glen, thank you so much. we're going to leave it there for so much. up next, intense hearing on capitol hill. house republicans do their best to discredit the fbi director and deputy attorney general. but first, we just talked about this most recent gun tragedy. we have been keeping track of gun violence in the country. according to the trace there have been at least 28,420
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. house republicans are demanding the justice department hand over sensitive documents related to the russia investigation within seven days. this comes after lawmakers railed against deputy attorney
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general rod rosenstein and fbi director christopher wray during a house judiciary committee hearing. they accused deputy attorney general of threatening house staffers with subpoenas and urging law enforcement officials to wrap things up. here's a glimpse of what exactly went down. >> there's an old saying that justice delayed is justice denied. i think right now all of us are being denied. whatever you got, finish it the hell up, because this country is being torn apart. >> did you threaten staffers? media reports indicate you did. >> media reports are mistaken. >> sometimes. but this is what they said. having the nation's number one law enforcement officer threaten to subpoena your calls and e-mails is downright chilling. did you threaten to subpoena their calls and e-mails? >> no, sir, and there's no way to subpoena phone calls. >> well, i'm just saying.
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>> oof. okey dokey. joining me now, maria hinojosa, latinos usa executive producer. and glen kirshner back with me. what is on the line if the department of justice does not produce the documents house republicans want? >> i think house republicans are bent on making this something like a scandal to make it seem this department of justice is after the president. rosenstein said we are trying as quickly as possible to give you all the things you want. we have 100 or so staff members dedicated to preparing all the things you want. the house republicans are basically saying we want this to be very loud and very clear that we think this investigation should be over. >> if they want a scandal, they've got one. there's two people already in
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jail. glen, could the release of these documents affect robert mueller's investigation? >> absolutely, stephanie. as a career prosecutor for 30 years, the sort of sanctity and integrity of a criminal investigation is really key. if you're going to do a fair, thorough, even handed job. and i really think these piecemeal attacks and requests that in the midst of an investigation that the mueller team begin handing over documents that are not matters of public record can do real damage to -- to a criminal investigation. and, you know, in watching yesterday's hearing, representative gowdy and representative jordan and some of the others really seem to strike an atmosphere that was more befitting of a worldwide wrestling event. i was wondering if we were going to see representative gowdy come down off the bench and attempt a flying drop kick of the deputy attorney general. but, you know, deputy attorney general rosenstein and director wray are trying to be
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professionals. they're high government officials. i think we need to ratchet everything back. we need to sort of have the tone tamped down a little bit. we need to let these gentleman do the job they are empowered to do and that the country needs them to do. >> well, linda mcmahon is a member of the -- well, she co-founded world wrestling entertainment and it was president trump himself who once body slammed her husband at an actual wrestling match. those were the good old days. congressman gowdy went off, urging rosenstein to wrap this thing up. i want to share a little bit of that. rosenstein's response. we don't have it. so basically he's saying hurry this thing up. what i don't get is gowdy ran benghazi which took 2 1/2 years and resulted in zero indictments. >> and there were also i believe
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eight investigations of benghazi as well. so what strikes me as odd, too, if you go back to the watergate days, when republicans of good conscious put no such time line on the investigations that were taking place then and, in fact, insisted that the president ultimately own up to anything he might have done. this is in sharp contrast to the history of the republican party with respect to how they deal with things like improper activities by the president, in this case, potential collusion with the russians, other allegations that adam schiff made that potentially deal with money laundering and the like, so it seems incongruous you have a cadre of individuals demanding a shutdown of an investigation that has yet to be completed. >> is this just politics or does trey gowdy legitimately think the investigation has run its course? i mean it definitely hangs over the president. he wakes up half the time tweeting about it. >> yes, but this notion that this russia investigation is tearing the country apart, you
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know, i travel around the country, that's not what i'm feeling. so i think that -- i don't feel the country out there is saying wrap this up. i mean, when i saw it, i just felt like, wow, this is what it feels like to be gas lit, the entire country to be gas lit. this entire notion of, like, turn over this stuff, and he's saying, we're turning it over. and he's like, why are you arguing? it just beginses to feel like the whole country is saying, wait, what's going on? which is gas lighting. >> political theater at a time when so many people got up and voted because they want a better life. glen, you are a former federal prosecutor. what do you make of the time line? for those of us who sit here in the news day in and day out, it does feel like it's taking forever. but you actually know. >> yes, these investigations take quite some time. particularly when they are document intensive. they involve overseas individuals and accounts. so i would actually maintain
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that investigator mueller and his team have moved at light speed and we've already seen results. guilty pleas, indictments. and i suspect there are more doimts in the offing. so this really is -- it's not only not unusual, but i would suggest it's moving fairly rapidly for this kind of an investigation. >> all right, yamiche, i want to go through this. because he also says that mueller has a list of conflicts of interest and here's the moment that was brought up. >> they keep talking about the 13 angry democrats that are running the investigation. >> congressman, i'm trying to do this job apolitically. and i consider myself -- i do not consider myself an angry democrat. you can be quite confident of that. >> are you a democrat? >> no, i am not. >> mr. rosenstein are you a democrat? >> i'm not a democrat and i'm
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not angry. >> donald trump, our president, tweeted, when is bob mueller going to list his conflicts of interest? mr. rozenstein, does bob mueller have any conflicts of interest? >> chairman, if there were any conflicts of interest that were brought to our attention, i would discuss with mr. mueller and there could be review within the department if there were a credible allegation of a conflict of interest. i'm not aware of any qualifying conflict of interest. >> okay, yamiche, if he's not aware of any qualifying conflicts of interest, if rod rosenstein is not a democrat, if christopher wray, who his a republican, who's appointed by the president, if we're still going through this, president trump's base will listen to the lie that he is putting out there and believe it. so we can sit here all day long and say this is an absolute nonsensical lie. but it's also super impactful and working. >> well, two things. the first i was just in duluth minnesota talking to trump
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supporters and they were telling me how much they love his twitter. the idea that the president speaks directly to them. they're saying they get their facts from the president. so his base is really not -- yes, they're watching the news but they're also looking at president trump's twitter and saying this is what the truth is. the other thing president trump did that's really, really smart on his part, he turned an investigation headed by republicans into a political theater to the point where people are looking at these republicans saying, well, they aren't the right kind of republicans. when he calls them angry democrats, he's just saying these are not the republicans who are loyal to me, who are going to go out there and tell the american people there is no collusion right off the bat, and because of that, he's very frustrated. it's also why he's very frustrated with jeff sessions. he's a strong conservative that people in the senate back. the fact that jeff sessions said, hey, i can't do this, i need to recute myself says, again, you're not well enough to me to take the stand and say something because you want me to look good. as a result, you have this long
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narrative there are democrats running the investigation when that's patently false. but his supporters just don't believe that. >> sessions, who's an actual conservative republican, and the president is looking for lackey republicans. glen, to you first, where do you think this goes from here after yesterday? what's the takeaway? >> i think where it goes, we've already seen the nonbinding resolution. i don't know it goes much beyond that. i think where it goes is bob mueller continues his investigation in the professional methodical way we have seen. and whether he issues a report to congress, whether he hands down a conspiracy indictment, whether it looks like the one that was issued naming the president as an unindicted co-conspirator, i think is anybody's guess. really because the mueller team doesn't leak, we don't know and we're only left to speculate. the one thing i'm confident of is robert mueller will do nothing to interfere with the
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midterm elections. he will either do something well in advance of it or well after it because i think that's the one thing that he is keenly interested in avoiding, impacting elections. the way we saw director comey impact the elections with his poorly timed announcement. >> this -- oh, around the horn, ron. >> the one thing we have to look out for is whether or not they hold rosenstein in contempt of congress if he doesn't deliver the documents in seven days and possibly strike a move to impeach him. that would be the worst case scenario. don't think it will happen but it's something we have to be aware of. >> when i was in wichita a couple of weeks ago and a republican guy who was driving -- who's not a trump supporter just said when i'm out there talking to people and they talk about trump, they believe in him, anything he says, they think he's a god, and you can't have a conversation with them. so that's where i get stuck with, like, his -- yes. that's what he said. he said, i can't -- they're my
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friends. i'm a republican. and they believe 100% everything that he says. and they defend him. so that's what i get stuck with. how do we move on in a gas lighting situation like we just experienced. >> yamiche. >> i think it goes back to what the president's going to do in terms of ratcheting this up. is he going to maybe actually move to start trying to actually term ninate people? is he going to start telling people that he -- that this is a complete lie, that now any further that it goes is really i guess tearing apart the country. and is he going to kind of adopt some of the -- i guess is he going to adopt even more rhetoric that gas lights us even further. >> i keep thinking about that night a few months ago when jeff sessions and rozenstein were photographed having dinner together. can you imagine what those two talk about? all right, thank you all so much. important conversation. it is time now for your morning primer. everything else you need to know to get your day started. and we have to start with this breaking news this morning. in about one hour, the man we have been talking about all
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morning and really all last night who shot and killed five people at the capital gazette in annapolis, maryland, he will appear in court for his bail hearing. he's charged with five counts of first degree murder. u.s. justice department announced charges for 601 people in the largest health care fraud takedown in america history. the doctors, are you listening, the doctors, nurses and health care professionals are charged with billing medicare, medicaid and private insurance companies for medically unnecessary prescription drugs and other medications that were sometimes never even purchased or distributed. and for the seventh time in just over a week, an earthquake caused by the kilauea eruption rocked hawaii's big island. according to the civil defense service, 657 homes have been destroyed from the recent volcanic eruptions. in the state of massachusetts, raised its minimum wage to 15 bucks. republican governor charlie
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baker signed the grand bargain bill which will increase the minimum wage from $11 to $15 by 2023. shares of walgreen, cvs and rite-aid tanked yesterday with the companies losing 11 billion bucks. they got amazoned. after amazon purchased the new online pharmacy pill pack. for more, i'm going to head over to cnbc's brian sullivan at the nasdaq. it is amazing, brian, as soon as amazon knocked on your door or your neighbor's door, it's like sudden death. why is it such a big deal? >> i love how you used it as a verb. they got amazoned. taken out behind the pharmacy woodshed i guess is the better way to say it. everybody's terrified. what does amazon do? any industry they go into, they either tend to win or at least come close to winning. what they bought is a company called pill pack. it's an online distributor of medicine, pills, et cetera. everybody's terrified they're going to come into an industry which is engrained in its ways. everybody's comfort. they've got their profit margins all along the chain.
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amazon is going to come in there with effectively an economic chain saw and take down the industry. you mentioned other names. remember, walgreens is now in the dow. well, yesterday was its first day in the dow and it fell 10%. i mean, hello to the dow on that one. by the way, stef, walmart, which has a big pharmacy business, lost 3 billion in market cap yesterday. that is, as you said, getting amazoned. >> all right. i got to ask you, your former colleague larry kudlow this morning, he was talking about what he claims is a shrinking deficit. let's listen to this. >> as the economy gears up, more people working, better jobs and careers. those revenues come rolling in. the deficit, which is one of the other criticisms, is coming down. and it's coming down rapidly. >> brian, you cover this every day. as do all of your colleagues at cnbc. what in the world is larry
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kudlow talking about? i don't want to just come out and call him a straight-up liar. but month after month, the deficit, just like our debt, is going up. >> yes, i mean, listen, i was on tv at that time when he gave that interview. i didn't see the full interview. but, listen, he's my friend too. i will say this. i mean, the deficit, as far as the numbers that we've got, maybe he knows something we don't know. that's why it's hard. he's now in the government. >> hold on, hold on. that's a dangerous thing to say because that's telling the audience that larry kudlow must have data that we don't. so he must be right. what type of information would he have access to that would tell him that it's going in the opposite direction? because that doesn't make sense to me. >> i don't know. i've just saying by the numbers we got, the numbers are going up. the deficit was, what, $580 billion in the first eight months of this year or something like that. the numbers that are publicly available is what i'm saying, for the numbers i see, the deficit has gone up.
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corporate tax revenues have gone down. most of that is from last year. the tax data and the revenue data tends to be a few months or even a few quarters back. all i'm saying is maybe larry is seeing stuff that -- again, i have no idea. but the publicly available numbers are going up. in fact, 200 -- let me leave your audience with this, stef, $239 billion, you know what that is, that's the amount of interest the government paid on its debt in the first eight months of this year. $239 billion in interest. you know where interest rates are going. i don't need to tell you. they're largely going up. which means the cost of our debt is going to get more expensive. it's like you don't need to be an economic genius. if your credit card company jacks up your rates, you feel poorer. that's kind of what's happening to the u.s. government now. >> you don't have to be an economic genius but you have to understand facts. what do you make of what larry's saying? you think he has access to numbers we don't? because he's the national economic adviser to the president? >> not on this particular score. i mean if he's reviewing irs
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data with respect to tax withholdings and whether those are going up at the individual level. what is ironic and what brian pointed to is corporate tax receipts are at their lowest level that we've seen in quite a number of decades. >> as a result of the tax cuts? >> absolutely. >> isn't that illegal? i'm not a business reporter but you can't be hiding information, right? >> no, if he's looking at, you know, weekly irs tallies of how much, you know, withholdings you're seeing and i don't even know why they do that. that would be one way in which he sees something no one has yet seen. that's not front-running sensitive information. i also don't think that's the case. most of what we've seen is tax withholdings are down, not up, and so that would not support the case that deficits -- >> to ron's point there may be data that is publicly available that i'm not aware of. there may be something deep in the irs website where every day they update it with some rolling number. i've not had the opportunity to peruse the irs website -- >> fortunately, we're not doing that. >> i might this weekend if you
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ask nicely though because i'm bored. >> i don't want you to do that this weekend. thank you so much. to the white house, please, if we have this wrong, or if mr. kudlow has some public information that we don't, i'd love to clear that up. up next, president trump just visited wisconsin where a new fox conn plant is expected to be built. it's being touted as a big step towards job creation. here's a question. is this actually happening? or could it be a bad deal if you look at the massive tax breaks? in the movies, a lot of times, i tend to play the tough guy. but i wasn't tough enough to quit on my own. not until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. it reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could stop. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures,
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i'm thrilled to be here in the badgers state with the hard-working men and women of fox conn working with you. moments ago we broke ground on a plant that will provide jobs for much more than 13,000 wisconsin workers. >> okey-dokey. that was president trump yesterday at the groundbreaking ceremony for fox conn manufacturi manufacturing's newest plant opening in wisconsin. those 13,000 jobs he mentioned might actually cost the state more than it's worth. for starter, wisconsin is actually paying fox conn for jobs, as much as $3 billion bucks in tax incentives in order to bring the company to their state. in addition to the $134 million in highway improvements near the new facility and $764 million in
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local city and county tax incentives. for a grand total of almost 4 billion bucks that wisconsin is giving to fox conn. for their part, fox conn promises to invest $10 billion with the potential, potential, to create 13,000 jobs. that is the number that the president cited. let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say perhaps they do come through with the 13,000 new jobs. that still means wisconsin is offering foxconn $370,692 per job for an average salary of $54,000. in fact, the government analysis shows this deal will not make the state any money until the year 2042. joining me, ron insana, and dan athen, a principal at advisers. ron, that's an awful lot of money. >> a lot of money. the ironic part about this,
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stephanie, we do not have a shortage of jobs in the united states irrespective of what the white house has been saying. we have 6.7 million open positions. we have a massive skills gap that keeps the open positions from being filled. so while it's always nice to see jobs being created in the state, particularly a state like wisconsin, which probably needs the diversification of other industries, it is, number one, expensive, but two, flies in the face of reality we're searching for jobs and not searching for workers. >> people are skeptical about this deal. if you remember, they made a promise to harrisburg, pennsylvania, for a project. it never materialized. why should wisconsin trust their pledge of -- of potential job numbers when they don't have a history of coming through? >> they shouldn't. this is a cheap political stunt in my opinion. foxconn employs 1.3 million workers in china, okay, so they're talking about 13,000 potential jobs in wisconsin. a state that actually has an unemployment rate of 2.8%, below
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the national average, okay. so it really doesn't make a lot of sense. so you think about it. there's really one fly in the own mnt intment -- >> they have 2.8% -- >> they do. apple i-phone, it says assembled in china, you know, so 45% of foxconn sales come from apple. this is apple, i'm sure, putting pressure on foxconn saying we're not going to build factories in america. we have the most profitable electronics business that has ever hit this planet, okay so you're going to do this cheap little stunt. you're going to put a factory in wisconsin. we're going to have our situation in china where we have -- they have really favorable terms with the chinese government. you have tim cook -- >> child labor an extent. >> that was foxconn at their own factories, they had 15 suicides at apple factories in 2010. i think there's a lot of angles here. president trump wants to bring jobs to america. 13,000 is nothing. foxconn really wants to get these favorable terms for a
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factory. $4 billion in subsidies. >> but to that point, does that not look like corporate welfare that hurts the wisconsin taxpayer and hooks up a company or investors? >> i hate to say it this way, but we've seen nothing but corporate welfare over the last several years now, particularly with the tax bill, where half of the s&p profits that have been reported this year have been directly result of lower tax rates. as i said earlier, the share of corporate taxes as a percentage of government rev fenues has fallen to an historic low. yes, it's just a continuation of what has been brought to us. >> apple is a company that over the past few years has been paying 25% in taxes anyway. now you have this corporate rate of 21%. now they just got an amnesty on, what, $90 billion -- or $190 billion that were overseas. so to me this is like a three-way sort of thing between trump, wanting to bring jobs, fox conn looking for subsidies
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and apple doing everything in their power not to create new jobs. >> does any of this trickle down and help wages go up? because we do not have a jobs problem. we have enough. we have a wage problem. does any of this fill the wage problem? >> if we could fill the jobs we have, we wouldn't actually have a wage problem. there are 40,000 open jobs in cybersecurity positions around the country that pay an average of $95,000 a year for a college graduate who's just come out of school. we have welding jobs that pay $100,000 a year. we have trucking jobs that pay $80,000 a year. all of which are going wanting for workers. so were those positions to be filled, which are decent wages, you'd see an updraft in wages where what we're seeing right now is this massive skills gap where the jobs just can't be filled. or there are people who are just refusing to take those jobs. >> can i ask for a moment president going after harley davidson, saying all that i did for you. i, for one, can't figure out what it is that he did for harley davidson. but is this an example of the president getting worried that
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the tariffs aren't going to work out? >> i don't think they have a pretty clear strategy. i think the juxtaposition in wisconsin between harley and this fox conn thing is really interesting. this also goes back to retaliatory measures. apple faces massive potential issues. especially when you think about the zte thing. zte supposedly just paid our government $1 billion in fines for doing business with north korea and iran, right, so here's the thing, what if china was to retaliate against apple. and that's why this is really the main story here. because apple gets $50 billion of their sales from china. they're the only technology company, american technology company, that's been successful. you know who's not in china? google's not. facebook is not. what i'm saying is this is a massive, massive market for them. i think a lot of this comes back to apple. >> ooh, we'll soon find out. gentlemen, thank you. when we come back, first
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lady melania trump made her second trip to the border. we're going to break down how her visits have affected the continuing migrant crisis. first, a quick update on a story we brought you earlier this week. on monday, we spoke with an attorney representing a mother who was separated from her 9-year-old son a month ago. i am thrilled to report that yesterday in chicago lydia souza and her son were reunited not just for the day, not just for the week but for good. that is a good news story. unfortunate one that never had to happen. can you love
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just another day on the farm. or is it? this farmer's morning starts in outer space. where satellites feed infrared images of his land into a system built with ai. he uses watson to analyze his data with millions of weather forecasts from the cloud, and iot sensors down here, for precise monitoring of irrigation. it's a smart way to help increase yields, all before the rest of us get out of bed.
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foxconn. i'm here to support you and give my help, whatever i can for behalf of children and the families. >> yesterday's trip to arizona marked first lady melania trump's second visit to the border in one week. as she toured dhs facilities and met migrant children as young as six years old, massive protests erupted across the country. nearly 600 women were arrested as they descended on a senate office building in washington, d.c. in portland, oregon, police in riot gear came face to face with protesters at an i.c.e. facility while more than 2,000 children,
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children still remain separated from their parents. cal perry is in texas. cal, even the first lady is not letting up on the issue. walk us through developments in the process to reunite the families. i want to stress one more time this narrative that the parents are just choosing to come to the united states. please remind us the conditions they're leaving and why they're coming here. this ain't no pleasure cruise. it is life or death. >> reporter: no. if you're deciding to make this journey, then you live in a hellish existence where you come from to walk 10,000 kilometers across mexico. we'll tell you what the kids are dealing with, some of them came alone. some of them walked across mexico alone. and when we talk to the emergency manager in the camp by way of something a bit lighter, he said the biggest complaint
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from the kids is it is too cold from air conditioning, not too hot. they have come from places they were sleeping outside. imagine what girls went through walking across south america. it is incredible. you can see juarez behind me. you have been talking about the financials of this. why not spend that money, try to improve conditions in places we know they're coming from. to your point, listen, 2047 children are still in detention on u.s. government facilities across the country. they have not been reunited with families. the number hasn't improved in a week. down six from two weeks ago. so what's going on? what's happening? why aren't reunifications happening. part of it is a logistical nightmare. many parents went in and said to a judge i don't know where my kids are, then were deported. we can't track people around the world. we have a difficult time doing that with terrorists around the world. how are we supposed to track a mother that went back to el
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salvador and we are hanging onto her son on the border. >> she is not hiding under a rock. unlike terrorists, she is not hiding under a rock. she's desperate to be reunited with her child. i could pick up my phone and figure out where my amazon package is down to the minute, what block it is on. i know there's more protests planned tomorrow. i think in all 50 states. what should we expect? >> reporter: so a big one in washington, d.c. this is run by families belong together and move on. 628 across the country. we expect hundreds of thousands to take to the streets. it will be hot. bring your water, umbrellas, get on facebook. >> look what's happening across our country today. cal, thank you so much. you need to stay hydrated down there. it is hot. i want to bring maria back to weigh in on this. melania trump made a second trip. she rarely weighs in on
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anything. clearly she's focused. but even if she has the president's ear, this is such a colossal disaster by their own hand, could she really have an impact here? >> i mean -- >> i appreciate that she went yesterday. >> probably her impact would have been greater if she was getting arrested with women that were protesting. i mean, i'm saying in terms of impact, that might have been the story. when she's going in there and talking or doing the tours, what can she say to the kids. one, she doesn't speak spanish. what is she saying to them. everything is going to be okay? how can she even say that when we don't know if it will be okay. my sources inside are telling me these are people working with the kids, that they have heard no plans in terms of reunification, that there's no again as referred to, no kind of plan of logistics.
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come on, if you bring in these kids, the thing you're doing is giving them a little name tag. >> like when i have a baby. a dhs official confirmed they tested this program in 2017, did a pilot for zero tolerance. they did it on the big stage, there's no plan for reunification. how does that even work? >> look, it's hard to get pulled back because remember, stephanie, i have been covering this for decades. when you talk about a consistent dehumanization of people, that's how you get to this point. when i was inside the detention centers in 2011 during the obama administration, the way people spoke inside were who cares if they get food with maggots, who cares if they're getting beaten up. they're just a bunch of illegals. you're consistently dehumanizing people. then it is like so you can't
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find the mother, capitn't find kid. >> when president trump likes to say this isn't a new policy, it always existed, if you could help us understand what that means. when you're in the centers in 2011 and we're saying this is new, help us understand the difference because it is new that children as young as three years old have to represent themselves in court. >> actually, no. >> i'm wrong. >> it is not new. children have been coming to this country for years. the first time i was covering this was during the elian gonzales story 20 years ago. that's when we first started seeing children coming. the officials, republicans and democrats and officials have known this is happening, so the fact that they don't have a plan is again part and parcel of the fact that they don't really care. the reporter was saying how the kids complain about it being cold inside. stephanie, there's a name that anybody that's been through this system knows, it is a word, it means the ice box.
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for years agents take children, women, men, and first thing they do when they encounter them when they're sweaty and cold, they put them into something called that. this is a dog cage. children talk about the terms in the communities i cover, these are terms that are always fluent. >> three-year-olds have to defend themselves in court. >> immigrants, so immigrants who are caught up in the immigration process do not have due process in the sense that they do not have a lawyer. if they want a lawyer, they have to pay for one. how is a three-year-old supposed to pay for one? one of the thing that's new is yes, you have children that are actively being separated by the zero tolerance policy. by the way, it is still
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happening. there's discretion still on the ground where i.c.e. agents can still be separating a parent from their child, even though we have this executive order. it is important to know this. more, stephanie, how do you wrap up 30 years, but we're trying. thank you for asking. >> thank you so much. that wraps up this hour. i am hallie jackson in washington. 30 miles east of us, journalists at the capital gazette put out a paper, dead colleagues on the front page. five families waking up without the person they love. we are learning more about those people, who they are, what they loved. the man suspected of killing them appears in court in 30 minutes. we'll have the latest on the investigation, a motive, what it was like inside the news room when the shooting started. we are also in court in virginia on one of the most consequential hearings for paul manafort. he is trying again to get charges thrown out. his lawyers are also asking a judge to throw out


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